Primal Endurance Podcast


Welcome to The Primal Endurance Podcast, where we challenge the ineffective, overly stressful conventional approach to endurance training and provide a refreshing, sensible, healthy, fun alternative. Going primal frees you from carbohydrate dependency and turns you into a fat burning beast! Enjoy interviews from elite athletes, coaches, authors and scientists on the cutting edge of endurance training and performance.


  • Update from Brad

    Update from Brad

    08/03/2019 Duração: 01h01min

    Future Primal Endurance shows will be published on the Primal Blueprint Podcast channel. Please subscribe and enjoy the diverse content on this thriving channel. You'll see the Endurance shows designated accordingly for quick access at a glance. You'll also enjoy feature interviews from ancestral health leaders, shows dedicated to keto, and narrations of posts.    In this fast-paced show, Brad hits you with a barrage of hot topics and reflections about healthy eating and training: Shifting from HIIT to HIRT, as advocated by Craig Marker at StrongFirst (listen to his Primal Endurance episode). Stands for High-Intensity Repeat Training. The importance of gut health, especially for endurance athletes who tempt gut dysfunction with long, hot workouts. How Brad healed his gut dysfunction by pounding probiotic foods and supplements and making his own kombucha. Brad's surprising recent test results from NourishBalanceThrive (listen to previous shows with Chris Kelly and with Dr. Tommy Wood), poss

  • Andre Obradovic: Life is too Short to Suffer

    Andre Obradovic: "Life is too Short to Suffer"

    15/02/2019 Duração: 52min

    Brad welcomes back popular Australian guest Andre Obradovic to go off script and talk about real-life matters not related to workout strategy, but of critical importance to your happiness and effectiveness as a parent, partner or career person. If you caught Andre's previous shows, you will love his colorful, hard-hitting commentary about what it takes to succeed as an endurance athlete and his important call for "no muppets" (blind followers who can't think for themselves). In this show, Brad and Andre, both age 53 as it happens, reflect on their journey as fathers of kids who are now adult age and offer some choice feedback for young dads trying to balance raising kids with intense athletic and career goals. Yes, this show takes an important and memorable detour from the constant talk about training. You will love Andre's insightful commentary in fresh Aussie spirit. An important show to reflect upon, especially for young dads trying to do it all.    TIMESTAMPS: These two experienced athletes and fathers ta

  • Phil Maffetone: Barefoot breakthroughs, getting stronger, keeping fit as you age

    Phil Maffetone: Barefoot breakthroughs, getting stronger, keeping fit as you age

    18/01/2019 Duração: 01h12min

    After the awesome big picture show about healthy living and avoiding the manipulations of today’s mainstream media and marketing forces, Brad welcomes Dr. Maffetone back for a show on the usual popular topics of endurance peak performance. First, Phil discusses the amazing marathoner Eluid Kipchoge, and how he can finally hit the magic 1:59 barrier. First, running barefoot would achieve a significant time improvement! Yes, hard to do if you have been in shoes for years. Second, getting muscular balance treatments, because hard training creates imbalances that increase injury risk and slow you down. Dr. Phil says even extreme endurance goals are not necessarily unhealthy for older folks if you adopt the correct approach. He cites examples of world class endurance athletes around age 40, and also recommends that you have more patience with recovery as you get older. On the topic of explosive training, Phil relates how important this is even for endurance athletes, who “epidemic” show physical and functional wea

  • Phil Maffetone: Avoiding the ills of modern society

    Phil Maffetone: Avoiding the ills of modern society

    04/01/2019 Duração: 01h06min

    Dr. Phil Maffetone returns to the show and we take a few steps back to cover some big picture items. First, the tremendous amount manipulation and hype we are exposed to each day with mainstream media is destructive and unhealthy. Phil disengages from this stuff! Realize how we make impulse decisions based on primitive brain function, or alternatively can get over-analytical. Better to cultivate our intuition where we can leverage both powerful gut instincts with our rational mind skills. Phil describes the global “overfat” epidemic, and how you can strive to keep waistline less than half your height in inches. This will help you avoid the prevailing disease triad of chronic inflammation, carbohydrate intolerance, and insulin resistance. First step to health: Ditch refined carbohydrates (sugars, flour/bread products, sweetened beverages) for two weeks per Maffetone’s “2-week test.” Then you can reintroduce natural carbohydrates back in (fruit, sweet potatoes, etc.) and see what you can tolerate without advers

  • Logan Schwartz--Transforming From Training Mentality to Lifestyle Mentality

    Logan Schwartz--Transforming From Training Mentality to Lifestyle Mentality

    08/12/2018 Duração: 55min

    Brad welcomes Logan Schwartz of to discuss evolved concepts of athletic training within the context of healthy living. It's time to reject the flawed and narrow focus of the traditional athletic training approach, where the focus is on work output connected specifically to your athletic goals. Logan, like other thought leaders, places the emphasis on overall daily movement and functionality over a devoted workout regimen. Of particular interest is the concept presented about conducting brief bursts of exercise output over the course of the day. Cranking about 20 deep squats in your cubicle, doing a few vertical jumps onto a park bench, or doing a few pullups every time you enter a certain doorway in your house. This kinda stuff adds up! Furthermore, you enjoy fitness adaptation benefits without the risk of overstress and overtraining that happens with prolonged, exhausting workouts.   Logan explains that any effort that even slightly exceeds your "basic adaptation threshold will improv

  • QA and Brad Monologue

    Q&A and Brad Monologue

    16/11/2018 Duração: 41min

    Brad delivers an opening monologue by emphasizing the important point that recovery requires energy in and of itself, so you have to adopt a bigger picture perspective than the narrow focus on delivering maximum energy output to workouts and taking recovery for granted. Also, (an aside!) Brad says if you are football fan there is blood on your hands and you should examine your conscience and moral implications of watching such a violent sport for our amusement. If you don’t devote proper attention and energy to recovery, big problems ensue and your training will become counterproductive.  Brad also mentions his awesome new podcast called Get Over Yourself. Details at Subscribe and enjoy broader content matter about living a long, healthy, happy life. Questions covered: Is there such a thing as too low body fat for a marathoner? How does a former bodybuilder transition over to specific endurance goals? Does a vitamin/mineral drink count against fasting/autophagy benefits? Are MAF test results

  • Listener QA

    Listener Q&A

    19/10/2018 Duração: 54min

    Brad talks about an assortment of interesting concepts, including: Fasting (and not exercising at all) to beat out a cold. The nuance of the "S" pattern in the swim stroke and, while technically accurate, might mess up yo' head like a technical golf swing tip. The difference between improving your MAF performance time versus improving your MAF endurance (not slowing down as much over the course of the test); being chill about your MAF number and setting beeper 5 beats below MAF to take corrective action before you exceed; Doing a 180 mi ride after a 24 hour fast and consuming no food calories for 18 hours of the ride. And the critical difference between the popular training concept of HIIT (high-intensity interval training), and the evolved strategy of HIRT (high-intensity repeat training). Brad was first exposed to this concept by noted MMA trainer Joel Jamieson and it has greatly improved his performance and recovery from sprint workouts. HIIT = extra stress, fatigue and recovery time. HIRT = high-quality p

  • Dude Spellings, Part 2

    Dude Spellings, Part 2

    12/10/2018 Duração: 43min

    Brad continues a lively conversation with Dude Spellings of Austin, TX. Dude describes how he overcame his frustration with his "slow" MAF training and allowed himself to build a strong aerobic base. Oh yeah, he also lost another 25 pounds to get down to lean, mean racing weight decades after being a hotshot young runner. Brad and Dude expound on the benefits and rationale for emphasizing aerobic training. Dude offers a great insight about measuring your aerobic output by time instead of by mileage. Top marathoners run 120 miles per week, but they are only out there for 10 hours, you know? Dude and Brad will get you psyched to delve into the wonderful world of cold therapy, and Dude exclaims that his cold exposure practice has made him a more chill guy in real life. He offers scientific references to mention that excess body fat might be a function of not just diet, but constant exposure to pleasant ambient temperatures, and excess blue light exposure messing with your appetite hormones. You'll be ready to ta

  • Dude Spellings, Part 1

    Dude Spellings, Part 1

    05/10/2018 Duração: 41min

    Brad Kearns talks to a big-time peak performance enthusiast from Austin, TX named Dude Spellings. Dude is an avid Speedgolfer, primal/paleo/keto eater, cold therapy enthusiast, and endurance athlete devoted to the Primal Endurance approach. He is deep into the primal living journey and a student of all latest health topics and you will enjoy this two-part episode chock full of great tips from a real guy doing his best to balance a busy life, delay aging, and pursue peak performance goals. Dude was a high school running champion who let himself get overweight and out of shape. He returned to fitness with a traditional chronic approach and hit a plateau. He had lost 20 pounds but had 25 more to go. Part 1 starts with the compelling account of how Dude threw his back out six years ago and vowed to "not be that guy" in the years ahead. He was doing okay with health and fitness goals but realized he could be much better. He was suffering from an annoying recurring skin condition that wasn't responding to medical t

  • Deconstructing Eluid Kipchoge’s Incredible Marathon World Record

    Deconstructing Eluid Kipchoge’s Incredible Marathon World Record

    28/09/2018 Duração: 34min

    This episode was inspired by awesome email commentary from a devoted listener, Primal Endurance advocate, and accomplished collegiate level runner Jack McGinness. Kipchoge recently ran the Berlin Marathon in 2:01.39, shattering the previous record and closing in on the previously unfathomable 2:00 barrier. Kipchoge’s pace per mile was an astonishing 4:39. Most accomplished runners would be hard-pressed to match this pace for even a half a lap around a track, but Kipchoge can continue at this speed for 26 miles. This is truly one of the most phenomenal athletic performances of the past 100 years.  What’s interesting about Kipchoge’s story is that, just as Dr. Phil Maffetone predicted in his commentary on the Primal Endurance Mastery Course, Kipchoge has become the greatest marathoner in history by training easier than other elite marathoners. Strange as it may seem, this guy rarely exceeds what we call MAF pace. Oh, Kipchoge runs like the wind, on muddy trails and high altitude in Kenya, but he explains that h

  • Rethinking No Pain, No Gain

    Rethinking No Pain, No Gain

    07/09/2018 Duração: 42min

    This show is about rethinking the basic notions of athletic training, particularly the ‘no pain no gain’ model that’s been widely criticized but is still embedded into DNA of many endurance athletes. Brad offers insights from four experts that may just blow your mind and get you to make some changes in your schedule that can lead to big improvements, and reduced risk of overtraining, illness, injury and burnout. These insights place particular emphasis on the recovery aspect of peak performance, something that has been overlooked or taken for granted by hard-charging endurance athletes. It's time to wake up and implement an evolved approach to your endurance goals, with help from four great thought leaders Brad discusses in this show. Some brief highlights:   Dr. Phil Maffetone: Honor MAF heart rate and emphasize aerobic development. Never exceed 90% of max heart rate during high intensity sessions.    Brian MacKenzie: The Power, Speed, Endurance guru and founder of Crossfit Endurance is now obsessed with rec

  • Phil Maffetone Pt.2 (Rebroadcast)

    Phil Maffetone Pt.2 (Rebroadcast)

    31/08/2018 Duração: 43min

    Listen in as Brad Kearns and Dr. Phil Maffetone have a casual chat about an assortment of interesting topics related to endurance training and general health. Brad complains about his crash and burn patterns, where he feels great for a while and then has down periods of diminished energy and training output. Dr. Maffetone speculates that the cause could be an inappropriate maximum aerobic heart rate value, and urges a conservative approach when calculating your number. He also mentions low vitamin D as a common cause of fluctuating energy levels, and that athletes should strive to get up around 60 or 70 ng/mL. This is way above the mainstream recommendations and a very interesting insight for many sun-starved athletes to consider. Regarding sleep, Dr. Maffetone urges everyone to get at least 7-9 hours of uninterrupted sleep each night. If you find yourself awakening in the middle of the night, it’s a sign of elevated cortisol levels and an overly stressful lifestyle. With high quality sleep each night, nappin

  • Phil Maffetone Pt.1 (Rebroadcast)

    Phil Maffetone Pt.1 (Rebroadcast)

    24/08/2018 Duração: 01h05min

    Host Brad Kearns talks to one of the true legends of endurance athletics, Dr. Phil Maffetone. Dr. Maffetone has advised some of the greatest endurance athletes in history, like triathlon champions Mike Pigg and Mark Allen. For decades, Dr. Maffetone has been promoting the benefits of aerobic development and how to protect and nourish health in pursuit of ambitious endurance goals. In this episode, Dr. Maffetone details how to get started with the Maffetone method of endurance training, something that will be of particular interest to any endurance athlete who has experienced fatigue, injury, recurring minor illness, regression or stagnation in performance and especially inability to reduce excess body fat. Dr. Maffetone says to the first start with a self-assessment of your body, performance, and stress levels. Take into account all stress factors, such as consuming refined carbs, drinking too much caffeine, not getting enough sleep, doing too much training and maintaining an elevated heart rate. The second s

  • Mark Allen

    Mark Allen

    17/08/2018 Duração: 46min

    Host Brad Kearns catches up with Mark Allen, the greatest triathlete in history, who has a record six victories at the Hawaii Ironman and ten victories at the Nice, France World Long Course Championship. Today, he is a popular triathlon coach at, TV commentator, corporate speaker, author, and presenter of “Fit Soul, Fit Body” retreats with Brant Secunda, a Huichol shaman, and healer. First, Mark talks about the importance of releasing attachment to outcomes and being committed to the enjoyment and appreciation of the process. He discusses how, after a series of unfortunate setbacks, Mark’s first victory in 1989 precipitated five Ironman attempts before he retired at the top of his game at age 39. Mark talks about balancing the pursuit of extreme endurance goals with maintaining health and how research on Heart Rate Variability has been a great breakthrough in monitoring stress and planning training. Mark and Brad discuss the importance of sleep when training and Mark elaborate on how

  • Andre Obradovic

    Andre Obradovic

    10/08/2018 Duração: 42min

    By popular demand, Andre is back on the show! This engaging chap from Australia generated great accolades on his first podcast appearance, so Brad and Dr. Lindsay Taylor catch up with him again to talk about his life coaching strategies. Yes, this stuff has a direct and important application to your endurance goals and overall happiness and satisfaction. Andre describes his “Wheel of Life” program (you can download the wheel at, where you rank assorted lifestyle categories in order of importance, and also rank them in order of how well you are doing in each one. For example, if you rank your health high in priority but low in compliance, you identify critical areas to improve and reprioritize.  Andre shares his own journey of becoming consumed by corporate life and falling so far out of balance that he destroyed his mental and physical health. It’s been a long road back to his existence today as a very popular endurance and life coach, as well as an elite age group triathlete. Andre is al

  • Listener QA

    Listener Q&A

    03/08/2018 Duração: 45min

    Brad Kearns tackles more interesting Q&A from Primal Endurance podcast listeners and book readers. Submit your questions at and they will get covered on the air.  While the questions relate to the specific needs of the individual, the answers are presented in a manner that applies to a broad audience. Listen and enjoy learning about the challenges and successes of your endurance peers, and come away with plenty of practical tips to help improve your training and competitive results Dave Reed from the UK has been really working with the book since January and has adopted primal diet, MAF training and now is fat adapted.  He has been racing but finds his performance has dipped.  Would going MAF since January have caused a dip in my performance with the increased benefit being seen after a long period on this training or could it be some other factor? [00:01:16]  Dave also inquires about MSP (maximum sustained power) training with the 4-3-2-2-1 (reps) format described in the

  • #160: Listener QA

    #160: Listener Q&A

    27/07/2018 Duração: 43min

    Brad covers some very thoughtful Q&A, including where weights might fit into the seemingly rigid guidelines and how Primal Endurance differs from Primal Blueprint Fitness guidelines. He looks at the possibility of over-consuming fat and possibly compromising fat loss goals. Brad's super duper awesome cure for plantar fasciitis, how MAF might require you to slow down to a fast walk in the name of rebuilding your broken down body. How to integrate carbs into peak performance efforts and do they cause any trouble? More great stuff along these lines, thanks for the great questions, enjoy the show! Kevin asks about lifting weights. Please explain the Primal Endurance rules on this activity. Why are you so tough on strength training? [00:01:34]  Tori wants to know about what can she do after surgery for ACL regarding recovery.  What can she do about her diet since she won't be able to train as she has the past ten years? [00:06:01]  Olivia has a wonderful testimonial regarding healthy eating. They are eating Ke

  • #159: QA with Janet Jackson and Gross Hematuria

    #159: Q&A with Janet Jackson and Gross Hematuria

    20/07/2018 Duração: 45min

    Host Brad Kearns shares the little known secret about Janet Jackson's racy lyrics in the song "If" that were imperceptible to the human ear when it was getting radio play in the 90s as a hit song. Horrors Casey Kasem! Brad talks about the overstimulation of the fight or flight response leading first to PRs and then to impending doom. A cool success story from James, who was running 14 min miles when starting MAF 3.5 years ago and now being able to hold the same pace at 52 beats per minute below MAF! How's your training gone over the past 3.5 years? Consider being patient and experiencing a significant reduction in your MAF pace, though not in a linear manner   96-year-old golfer getting some cameo props for his endurance in life. Jason Trew with a unique and creative way to stay below MAF while running faster spurts and then walking to keep watch from beeping. James Hall asks about the rationale of applying 180-age formula everyone, causing Brad to go off about his burnout experience followed

  • #158: Tom Seabourne

    #158: Tom Seabourne

    13/07/2018 Duração: 01h07min

    Brad catches up with Guinness World Record holding ultra-endurance athlete Tom Seabourne, a professor of Exercise Physiology at Northeast Texas Community College who has pushed the limits of human endurance with numerous finishes in what Outside magazine calls the toughest athletic event in the world: The non-stop solo bicycle Race Across America (RAAM). Tom and Brad reminisce about the old days where Tom was on the cheapest crew in the history of the race, while Brad was part of Johnny G’s most expensive crew in the history of the race. Tom was 103 miles from the finish line at 3,000 miles when he was eliminated on time. Heartbreak, but it got him “addicted” to the event, which he went on to finish several times. Cycling over 300 miles for 22 hours a day is pretty tough, but Tom’s crew follies were epic. Once, his team lost him in the California desert soon after the start. Another time his relay team members bailed in Utah! Tom also set a Guinness World record for the longest stationary bike ride of 185 hou

  • #157: How To Run Faster

    #157: How To Run Faster

    06/07/2018 Duração: 21min

    Brad lays out a master plan to improve your running performance, looking beyond the obvious and sometimes misguided insights to push harder, add more speed workouts, or run more miles. Endurance athletes often overlook the importance of technique, and often exhibit horrible technique. No excuses are such a simple sport! Golf - plenty of excuses for a lousy swing (it’s very technical and hard to develop), but not running! Some discussion of technique ensues, emphasizing balanced center of gravity at all times and good posture. The listener is urged to dive deep into the running technique instruction, drills and sprint workout videos in the Primal Endurance Mastery Course at Sprinting is great for technique development because the penalty for a poor technique is severe. Ditto for running barefoot on concrete - you very quickly learn how to strike the ground and absorb shock optimally, and generate explosive force with each stride. In contrast, cushy running shoes ruin your proprioception an

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